Thursday, March 15, 2007

But enough about us, what are others saying about us?

There were some comments earlier in the week about us giving both sides of the story in our blogging at the Hazleton trial. Since this is the blog of the ACLU of PA, that's not going to happen, but here is a collection of articles from today's papers about yesterday's proceedings.

AP (by way of the Philadelphia Inquirer): At trial, Hazleton mayor defends his stance on illegal immigrants

Pittsburgh Post Gazette: Hazleton mayor, ACLU square off over immigration

(Wilkes Barre) Times Leader: Barletta grilled on views

The Times Leader also has video of Vic Walczak talking with the press after yesterday's proceedings, which you can get by clicking here.

Andy in Harrisburg

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20 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yeah, let no one say that the ACLU is guilty of weighing both sides of an issue before making a judgment.

11:04 AM  
Anonymous Alan said...

Keep up the good work ACLU!

Fight against prejudice and keep America safe, just and strong!

11:36 AM  
Anonymous Alan said...

What about this blow-hard mayor?

Asked about the numbers, he had to be given an extra day to "study so he can be prepared for Mr. Walczak's questions."

What a joke! He's been pissing and moaning about "illegal" immigrants for how long now, he's been scheduled to testify for how long, and he needs an extra day to "study" the numbers!

All he knows is there are a bunch of new brown people in his town and he doesn't like it. Got to do something about that!

1:26 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

And it just so happens that the brown people are illegal aliens who are not entitled to be present. Hazleton actually has the law on his side, as the unwelcomed guests were in violation CFR Title 8, as excludable aliens. If ICE had actually visited Hazleton prior to enactment of the ordinance, as they should have, the affect would have been the same, thousands of Hispanics would have vacated the city. Those people left town because they knew they weren't entitled to be there.

2:05 PM  
Anonymous t.j. said...

um, not all brown people are illegal aliens. when city officials start slinging mud and scaring the community into believing "illegals" from Latin America are destroying the town, you better believe everyone of Latin descent is going to feel the backlash. who wants to stay where they're clearly not welcome?

2:14 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

tj,

If one considers the fact that disobeying our laws is actually an affront to society, then the citizens have a right to object. Society becomes decadent in the absence of law and order and the presence of illegal aliens is a visible sign of that disease.

The ACLU is blowing a lot of smoke that would be useful in a jury trial, but unfortunately for them, a judge is presiding. He'll weigh the ordinance on how it is worded and how it is to be carried out. If the provisions are consonant with federal law, it is likely that he will permit their enforcement. All that crap of how something might be interpreted is speculative and for public consumption and will be left to actual civil suits that might ensue.

3:07 PM  
Anonymous Alan said...

RE: And it just so happens that the brown people are illegal aliens

As noted, "hizzonner" the mayor didn't have any numbers. You don't either.

The reason that no one is being ICE'ed is because there are very good, solid economic reasons for the "illegal" immigrants to be in America. There are a lot of people who understand this, they want them here, and they push back on the nativist/racist agenda, but don't do so openly.

What prevents reasonable, rational immigration policy in our country are the racists who want to punish brown people and the politicians who pander to them.

Grow up and get real children; the global economy is here, its now, and it isn't going away.

4:58 PM  
Anonymous Alan said...

RE: Society becomes decadent... illegal aliens... a visible sign of that disease.

Social Decadence! Aliens are a disease! Yikes, where have we heard this kind of stuff before?

Maybe we should issue the ICE agents jackboots and batons so that can do their job RIGHT.


The reason economic migrants come to America is because they are paid to come. They are the visible sign, as immigrants always have been, of the economic and social strength of our country.

I'm proud to have them here.

5:15 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Alan, obviously you've never served your country, except perhaps at the front counter of Burger King, and that's probably why you have so little respect for the laws of our democracy and the citizens that made it what it is today.

The real panderers are the ones who bow to those who demand special treatment for their ethnic group at the expense of the citizen and in preference to other immigrant candidates who wait their turn with honor and respect for this nation. People are down on the millions of brown people because they happen to be cheating our system. If they were white cheaters the same contempt would be expressed. It is you race card players that have no scruples, because if you can't win on the merits of a case, you bring on the race card, time and again. And you know what, more than these cheaters, we dislike deluded pathetic Quisling agents of Mexico like you.

6:07 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'll say what i said in another comment........Illegal=Illegal, obviously you far-left liberals dont get that. People are complaining that they lost business, well thats because all of their customers were illegals and they left, it doesnt take a moron to put the 2 together. I live 10 miles from Hazleton so i know what Im talking about.

7:09 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Is it just me that thinks that Andy has the IQ of 50. Is sure makes him an excellent regurgitator of ACLU propaganda, somewhat similar to an idiot savant. He doesn't have to think, just write what his puppet masters say. Andy, do you have any friends like you with strings and pulleys?

7:09 PM  
Anonymous Alan said...

RE: "obviously you've never served your country"

Oh yes, obviously! Yet more narrow-minded stereotyping. But why so tame? You could accuse me of being a person of color! Or how about gay! Instead, all you can do is speculate that I'm --- a civilian! Boy, that's crushing!

7:49 PM  
Anonymous Alan said...

RE: "obviously you've never served your country"

Oh yes, obviously! Yet more narrow-minded stereotyping. But why so tame? You could accuse me of being a person of color! Or how about gay! Instead, all you can do is speculate that I'm --- a civilian! Boy, that's crushing!

7:49 PM  
Anonymous Alan said...

RE: "because if you can't win on the merits of a case"

We are winning on the merits of the case. Have been for a long time. That's why you'r so frustrated.

Say, let's check back in five years and see if anyone has built a "big wall" on the boarder to keep the economic migrants out. What a joke!

7:55 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"The reason economic migrants come to America is because they are paid to come. They are the visible sign, as immigrants always have been, of the economic and social strength of our country."

Actually, they're not paid to come, they come to get paid. Since no honest American would hire one or smuggle one across the border, because those acts are against CFR Title 8 immigration laws, that makes them here illegitimately. Being clever enough to illude our immigration authorities for years isn't a qualifier for legal residency the last time I checked. The fact that the people's laws are not enforced by an Executive Branch corrupted by special interest groups isn't an excuse to continue the practice or a rationale for giving amnesty or permitting the illegal aliens to continue living here.

Explain to me why the good citizens present at this time can not be considered the economic and social strength of our country. It would seem that you are prejudiced against the very citizens that have the vote. Would you suggest that we just evict the citizens in favor of the new immigrants. By your measure, we're just dead weight pending demise.

8:11 PM  
Anonymous Cro (Anonymous) said...

Alan said...

Keep up the good work ACLU!

Fight against prejudice and keep America safe, just and strong!

You are out of your freakin mind........wow, what are you George Soros's secretary????

8:53 PM  
Anonymous Alan said...

RE: Explain to me why the good citizens present at this time can not be considered the economic and social strength of our country.

They absolutely can be and, by me at least, are! I'm very proud of (the vast majority) of my fellow citizens and the work we do. We are the world's leading economy. As I put it in another post, we ARE the global economy.

I personally do not think that the American economy is a zero-sum game where those that are here lose out to those that come. That has never been case in all of our history and it is not now.

10:38 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I believe that when immigration is done in an organized, sane fashion, it can be a good thing. However, I do not believe in open immigration, where the citizens do not have a say as to who is permitted to enter our country. Unfortunately, the latter has occurred, by way of our corrupt government in collusion with a corrupt business community, corrupt politicians, corrupt, power hungry ethnocentric Hispanic advocacy group leaders and the governments of socioeconomic basket cases.

Nothing good can come of the currently proposed immigration policies that are being forced on the American people by way of surrendering to special ethnocentic interests and the afforementioned culprits. The American people trust their gut instincts and still remember the failure of the 1986 amnesty, so they're not about to be fooled again. Amnesty is dead and so are the careers of those politicians who support it.

10:19 AM  
Blogger overallidea said...

I agree that immigration should be only by legal means. Running the border is illegal in many countries - and we have laws here in the U.S. that are supposed to protect us from this pointless argument. Immigration IS NOT ILLEGAL - nor will it be. BUT IT MUST be regulated to protect citizens (some of which are immigrants themselves and come here to be safe). If an outlaw illegal runs the border and could be caught - should he be returned or left here to bother an innocent family who immigrated here legally or anyone else? This is an easy answer - now comes the technical stuff. I think there should be no limit of who comes here - learns the language (American English - which incorporates many languages) learns some history of why they would want to stay and pays tax eventually. They should have a stay on the tax until they either own property in excess of X amount of dollars or have had a job in the country for x years (if high paying position - 1 year). It shouldn't be the tax payers burden to give free rides. It should be an immigrants responsibility and love of the country that make them want to stay. If you immigrate here you know that what should be the taxpayers burden is free education to help naturalize more legal citizens and put them in jobs of their choosing. If they have a reason they cannot learn such as old age (50+) or retardation, etc. then education should be less necessary. If physically disabled they should not be turned away. Even disabled immigrants deserve a chance to make it here as an American citizen even if their contributions are lesser. OF course,if they are contagious or have a foul history (murderers, etc.)in their country they should have seperate and more rules to go by. This country will not exist without the ability to stifle any "come here- don't care about here" attitudes. In all being an American should be a privilege and citizens should be proud and able to learn other languages by choice in school in higher grades. I find forcing Americans to learn two languages at an early age to be an insult. You should be proud of your heritage and what changes have made America what it is - not deny our history and slave all kids into learning a new langauge they're not ready for because everyone ran the border from one side or the other. We have a national language - let's teach it - let's make Americans who may later teach us their languages. A PA school was even lobbying to allow lice into school. What's wrong with this picture - if you don't know? Lice (blood-suckers)and ticks (which carry a disease which can kill you and look much like lice) aren't something that should be overlooked and neither is our language. Other languages are a necessity to learn when you have learned yours first. Every country should promote pride in their history and their own langauges - as should we. Let's not forget when time comes - learn another language or two and travel to foreign lands. If you skip the basics you're skipping being American, Canadian, Mexican, Chinese - you name it. The government should have more of a handle on basics in education. And no person should be kept from living here in a fair amount of safety or left guessing - what did that American guy say? Not fair to them or me if they want to live here. Let's find the way to loving our neighbors and ourselves. First- you can't stay united by soiling all over our national language. We're in turmoil - it's to deal with correctly - not by kicking people out who love this country and want to stay and learn. That's a fault. Nothing more. Let them show their American pride - let them learn as we did. They are us. Immigrants are Americans. And personally I think Native Americans should hold a higher place in our history. Don't forget who was first here over many generations and tribes. They deserve some preferential treatment on their land.

2:28 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Overallidea said: "If they have a reason they cannot learn such as old age (50+) or retardation, etc. then education should be less necessary."

Horace says: Sonny, I've just turned 55 and I must tell you that I deeply resent such comments. I have a degree in Chemical Engineering and I'm an avid reader of a broad range of subjects; quantum mechanics, early American history, military history, integral and differential calculus, the U.S. Constitution, archeology, and relativity, to name a few. I've even taken a stab at Hangul, the written language of Korea. I don't know how old you are, but you are quite incorrect if you think that all people 50 and older are ready for the geriatrics ward.

7:30 PM  

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